DUCATI TT and F1 FORUM
 
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 Post subject: Re: New wheel sizes
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:45 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:20 pm
Posts: 1209
Location: Vermont, USA
The old axiom about changing one thing at a time comes to mind here, but we know the off season only comes once a year. You're discussing a number of pretty serious changes, all sound worthwhile on paper, but one that would be much more difficult to undo if it didn't work out so well for you. Maybe you could find a spare frame to relocate the engine on, or save that one for next year.
Bill


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 Post subject: Re: New wheel sizes
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:21 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:23 am
Posts: 1122
I can see and understand the problems there. I have stared long at those wimpy engine tabs---with aluminum spacers between the engine mounts; even NCR Pantah TT frames have solid tubes with double brackets on them. The historical Sears Pantah racer has heavilly gusseted mounts on it. And I have noticed how quickly the chain wants to grind away at the swingarm with longer shocks; had to shorten the shock on the TT 900 SS, and lessening the pre-load helped a bit.

So how about dropping the triple clamps down the tubes until you fall down? Maybe you get into clearance problems, and have to adopt the classic (Hailwood) style of riding?

MikeV

PS: With the chase for modern tires and technology (warmers) I can see how a modern-"vintage" machine becomes a "frankenbike".


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 Post subject: Re: New wheel sizes
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:20 pm
Posts: 1209
Location: Vermont, USA
I have to believe you have already talked to Ed Milich, longtime Pantah racer in AHRMA Vintage Superbike, and even longer time good guy. He would be a great source of helpful practical information. Here's a video of him briefly discussing his bike at Willow Springs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMagjQ8tKxs
http://ducpower.com/


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 Post subject: Re: New wheel sizes
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:56 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:55 pm
Posts: 91
Location: Illinois
I have talked with Ed and Bruce Meyer. Ed runs a stock frame, swingarm, longer rear shocks, and 35mm forks with racetech internals and a brace. I have the exact same setup currently, minus the better shocks. Ed runs 17" Astralites with what appear to be pirelli super corsas.

I am all for simple and less changes. However both cranky and Bruce have said that those engine tabs are a weak link. And if you look at the redfox site, their Pantah frames do away with the tabs as well. All of the suggested changes are proven entities, but like you said, pretty major as well.

Damn rule changes.......all I wanted was a trick set of bolt on repop campy's.


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 Post subject: Re: New wheel sizes
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:29 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:38 am
Posts: 43
Location: New Zealand
Not everyone's cup of tea, not mine anyway, but I walked past a Suzuki Gladius the other day and was caught by how slightly 'similar' the wheels are to a Campagnolo pattern. Runs a 120/70ZR17 Front, and a 160/60ZR17 Rear:

Image
Spokes are canted forward but not by much....


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 Post subject: Re: New wheel sizes
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:06 am
Posts: 51
I am with you on the speeding up the steering. ;)
Raising the rear will create problems, so other ? At the front I see two options - 1 cheap, 1 not so cheap.
Not so cheap, http://sportsvalve.com/other-products/suspension/. but a very nice solution !

Cheap - at the front of the frame behind the headstem are the upper & lower triangulations - put a 1/2 mm wide cut threw the lower tri & apply a little heat to the upper tri - to close the lower cut. New headstem angle ?
I remember reading somewhere that ducati? (someone?) decreased the headstem angle at the time to 24 degrees. : :o

It is a little bit like the case of the 916's when they were racing - where ducati claimed that there were no differences between their factory bikes & the customer bikes..... Until the 916's were finished, then they remembered that the swing arms on the factory bikes were in fact 1.5in longer ?..... hmmm how did they forget this ? :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: New wheel sizes
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 2:06 am
Posts: 51
Another thought about the flimsy rear engine mount on the TT's.
It makes sense that if the engine is mounted at the top only that the engine could act like a pendulum, swinging thru an arc from left to right depending on which direction you are turning - so bracing would be a good idea.

F1's : Does the extended third engine mount on the F1 stop this ; or does it swing with the pendulum ?
In theory it would - but maybe not in practise ?


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 Post subject: Re: New wheel sizes
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:46 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:38 am
Posts: 43
Location: New Zealand
Can anyone post a photo of these flimsy rear engine mounts please?
Mine are a pair of nearly blind tubes that the skinny bolt passes through.


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 Post subject: Re: New wheel sizes
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:44 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:20 pm
Posts: 1209
Location: Vermont, USA
Apparently the Suzuki SFV650 Gladius rear wheels are 5.0" wide. Nice looking though.


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 Post subject: Re: New wheel sizes
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:41 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:38 am
Posts: 43
Location: New Zealand
pantah_good wrote:
Apparently the Suzuki SFV650 Gladius rear wheels are 5.0" wide. Nice looking though.

I mean they'll cost almost nothing and the weight will be quite acceptable.
One thing though, the rear hub looks quite wide but it is probably workable. Anyway, better than some other options I'm sure.


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