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 Post subject: F1 Evolution
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:31 pm
Posts: 52
Location: Los Gatos, CA
This seemed the right forum in which to post the question. If it's more appropriate for "General Interest" please let me know, or admins please move it.

Disclaimer-I own many Italian vehicles, including Alfa Romeos, so I'm well aware of the occasionally schizophrenic nature of Italian manufacturing dates and VINs. (i.e., I have a 57 Alfa which has a VIN hundreds earlier than others which the factory designated as 56s, but that's a topic for another forum).

Some of the confusion for me and my F1 may be due to the fact that the North American market was made murky by the small number of examples exported, the additional welded on frame tag to support the 17 digit VIN requirement, and other oddities. That said...

So I've been reading through Falloon's "Ducati Belt-Drive Two-Valve Twins" and trying to figure out where my F1 falls in the lifespan. Here's what we know, at least according to Ian (who should know of whence he writes, right?)

1-the first generation of F1s, those with the Giugiaro style decals, the aluminum tanks, etc. were made in 1985, BEFORE the Cagiva purchase, which took place sometime after these initial motorcycles were built.

2-there were a number of late 85 built machines (which would become 86 year model examples), referred to as "12/85" F1s. These began at Engine number 750095. There were many changes, both mechanical and cosmetic. I'm curious about the one cosmetic change that my motorcycle has; the decals. Falloon's book neither discusses nor shows examples of the street going F1 which has the later style (Cagiva era) logo but WITHOUT the elephant graphic. I'm assuming (but then again, there's the Italian factor) that these would have been early models. It's unclear but at some point Ducati stopped putting decals with the elephants on the fairings and left them only on the tank. So as you can see, my motorcycle has none, which would lead me to believe it was very early in the post Cagiva purchase production run, but who knows? I'm curious how many other, especially North American, F1s there are out there that look like mine.

Ciao!
-tj in the cruz mtns


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2012 KTM 450 XC-W
2008 848
1995 916
1992 900SS
1991 851
1987 F1
1966 Mach 1 Replica
1957 Alfa Romeo 1900C SS
1957 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider Veloce
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 Post subject: Re: F1 Evolution
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 4:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:51 am
Posts: 191
Hey TJ,
I am new to the list and have been trying to learn about these bikes too. Here are things I noticed, the decals, side stand, instruments, floating rotors if stock, smooth/non finned exhaust collars, and small plug heads would indicate a late bike, 86 or 87. That's my guess :-) what engine number are you?

Experts please chime in....maybe locking gas cap is late too?

Regards,
Clay


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Evolution
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:31 pm
Posts: 52
Location: Los Gatos, CA
Hi Clay,

Mine did not have a sidestand. Has floating front rotors, but I don't recall the exhaust collars or heads. My Engine number is 7501154 which according to Falloon's book is early/mid 86.

-tj in the cruz mtns


Cal wrote:
Hey TJ,
I am new to the list and have been trying to learn about these bikes too. Here are things I noticed, the decals, side stand, instruments, floating rotors if stock, smooth/non finned exhaust collars, and small plug heads would indicate a late bike, 86 or 87. That's my guess :-) what engine number are you?

Experts please chime in....maybe locking gas cap is late too?

Regards,
Clay

_________________
2012 KTM 450 XC-W
2008 848
1995 916
1992 900SS
1991 851
1987 F1
1966 Mach 1 Replica
1957 Alfa Romeo 1900C SS
1957 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider Veloce
1966 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Veloce


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Evolution
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:18 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:51 am
Posts: 191
I have engine #7501527, that appears to be in nearly the last batch of bikes. Mine says model yr 1987.


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Evolution
PostPosted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 11:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:31 pm
Posts: 52
Location: Los Gatos, CA
What state do you live in? It's my belief that Ducati didn't really think about year models in the way that we now do. They built motorcycles, exported them to various countries, and then let dealers try to sell them. In the case of the F1, this sometimes took a long time. I'm guessing that your bike was built in 86, but by the time it got registered, it was marked as an 87. Please post a photo of yours.

Cal wrote:
I have engine #7501527, that appears to be in nearly the last batch of bikes. Mine says model yr 1987.


-tj in the cruz mtns

_________________
2012 KTM 450 XC-W
2008 848
1995 916
1992 900SS
1991 851
1987 F1
1966 Mach 1 Replica
1957 Alfa Romeo 1900C SS
1957 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider Veloce
1966 Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Veloce


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Evolution
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:23 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:13 am
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Location: Sydney, Australia
corsachili wrote:
1-the first generation of F1s, those with the Giugiaro style decals, the aluminum tanks, etc. were made in 1985, BEFORE the Cagiva purchase, which took place sometime after these initial motorcycles were built.
-tj in the cruz mtns

Cagiva were well entrenched at Ducati by 1985.

corsachili wrote:
2-there were a number of late 85 built machines (which would become 86 year model examples),
-tj in the cruz mtns

NOPE. The late 1985 machines were the second batch of Giugiaro graphic bikes. Pretty much the same as the original batch, tip to identifying the later build is they have a Newton fuel filler cap. Early batch had a screw on cap.

corsachili wrote:
referred to as "12/85" F1s. These began at Engine number 750095. There were many changes, both mechanical and cosmetic. I'm curious about the one cosmetic change that my motorcycle has; the decals.
-tj in the cruz mtns

See previous answer.
There were few changes (if any) between the first batch of 1985 bikes and second batch. Only fuel cap was different.
Your bike is not a 1985.

corsachili wrote:
Falloon's book neither discusses nor shows examples of the street going F1 which has the later style (Cagiva era) logo but WITHOUT the elephant graphic. I'm assuming (but then again, there's the Italian factor) that these would have been early models. It's unclear but at some point Ducati stopped putting decals with the elephants on the fairings and left them only on the tank. So as you can see
-tj in the cruz mtns


There are three generations of specifications for 750 F1 Tricolor models. I like to describe them a Type 1. Type 2 and Type 3.

Type 1. Built in 1985 all have aluminium tanks and Giugiaro graphics and a what was basically a 650 Pantah engine.

Type 2. Introduced in 1986. Steel gas tank and improved engine as per Falloon's description.

Type 3. Introduced late 1986 maybe 1987. Now has the same engine as the Montjuich, Laguna Seca and Santamonica. All else on the bike is the same as introduced with the 1986.

Decals... I have no idea when the graphics began losing the Elephant off them. Possibly but not necessarily around the introduction of the Type 3.

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 Post subject: Re: F1 Evolution
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:07 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:38 am
Posts: 47
Location: New Zealand
corsachili wrote:
Some of the confusion for me and my F1 may be due to the fact that the North American market was made murky by the small number of examples exported, the additional welded on frame tag to support the 17 digit VIN requirement, and other oddities.


In my experience what is under that tag is either a 350F3 or a 400F3 frame number, and vica versa. Have you had a look ?


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Evolution
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:10 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:38 am
Posts: 47
Location: New Zealand
corsachili wrote:
Hi Clay,

Mine did not have a sidestand. Has floating front rotors, but I don't recall the exhaust collars or heads. My Engine number is 7501154 which according to Falloon's book is early/mid 86.


Heads have date stamps, as did brembo hydraulics. I would think all will be easily within 12 months of the actual build/VIN date. Could be a good quick verification.


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Evolution
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:14 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:38 am
Posts: 47
Location: New Zealand
athleticroman wrote:

There are three generations of specifications for 750 F1 Tricolor models. I like to describe them a Type 1. Type 2 and Type 3.

Type 1. Built in 1985 all have aluminium tanks and Giugiaro graphics and a what was basically a 650 Pantah engine.

Type 2. Introduced in 1986. Steel gas tank and improved engine as per Falloon's description.

Type 3. Introduced late 1986 maybe 1987. Now has the same engine as the Montjuich, Laguna Seca and Santamonica. All else on the bike is the same as introduced with the 1986.

Decals... I have no idea when the graphics began losing the Elephant off them. Possibly but not necessarily around the introduction of the Type 3.


Hey Mike, and.... Type 1 all have red 38mm Marzocchi forks and yokes right? And all others having silver Forcella Italias and yokes. Does that spill over into Type 2 also?


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Evolution
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:21 am 
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Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:13 am
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Location: Sydney, Australia
nick gill wrote:
Hey Mike, and.... Type 1 all have red 38mm Marzocchi forks and yokes right? And all others having silver Forcella Italias and yokes. Does that spill over into Type 2 also?


Type 1. Marzocchi forks, Nippon Denso clocks, Seat tilts upward at the back, Bosch Ignition, Floating Rotors front and rear.

Type 2. Kokusan ignition, 41mm Forcelle Italia Forks (Ceriani), Veglia clocks, solid rear rotor.

Type 3. As with Type 2, but with Montjuich engine, still with 36 mm carburetors.

I have never seen a 750 F1 vary from its year model specification - parts bin specials myth.

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