Thanks for the added information Sauro.

But, some more questions:

Did DYNA design these (DS4 and DS5) to work with stock ignitions that have igniter boxes (Bosch or Kokusan) and, if so, would keeping them still work? Would this give them a small advance for starting, and then a curve for increasing higher RPM?

Or, do the DS4-1 and DS5-1 (Guzzi V35, 50, 75) replace ignition systems that used only points?

I find wiring diagrams that show Ducatis and Guzzi both with, and without, Bosch and Kokusan igniter boxes. Did they both start with old-fashioned points and then switch to electronic ignitions?

And finally to all who use these with a fixed advance (Pantah Good and Huit and Sauro and ???), are they at 0 degrees advance at the start, and then instantly zip up to 30 degrees? And they start OK?

Still confused (don't shoot me yet), MikeV

PS: It is too cold and slippery and slimy to ride here, so what else can I do that is constructive?

I am not an expert, but my reasonning is : when you boost an engine, balance the crankshaft, check the squish band, adjust the cam timing with adjustable cam pulleys, have the intake and exhaust ported, etc., etc., it is not the best idea to run this engine with fixed ignition timing.

So, when I will install a left side cover made by Sauro Colini (to get a quicker revving-up engine and easier ignition timing adjustment), I will install an ignition box (probably from Ignitech in Czech Republic).

I have asked Ignitech which ignition control box should I install in conjunction with Dynatek DC3-1 green coils and DS4-1 pick-ups installed on the shaft running the cam pulleys.

Here is their answer :

``Suitable unit is programmable unit TCIP4 modified for use with hall pickups (Dyna pickups are hall type). We suppose that original ignition system contains two units Bosch. We can offer programmable unit TCIP4 standard with connector adapter.

Unit will be preprogrammed for use with pickup system at cam.

unit TCIP4 standard 141 USD
connector adapter 5 USD
Shipping DHL 52 USD

If you select programmable unit - useful accessories is USB/COM cable for connection to PC 15 USD``

I asked the same question to Dynatek. They replied :

``The Dyna-S was only designed for the 1972 to 1974 motors and will not work on
your 1985 motor. I cannot tell you how to adapt to fit.``

As you can see, Dynatek is not very helpfull.

Since many engine builders (Redfox-Grinta among others) use Ignitech products, I think I will go the same way.

Gilles

I fear this discussion is entering "chasing the perfect at the expense of the good" territory, besides leaving my field of expertise, so I'm bowing out. Bruce Meyers knows how to build championship winning race engines, and he left that locked advance external mounted Dyna pick up in place when we went out to chase the 2006 AHRMA BOT3 championship, which is not a vintage class. The only time that ignition let us down while winning that championship, or ever, was at Willow Springs when its mounting started to come loose while Robbie was running down Mark Hatten for the overall race lead, who was on a 748 BOT2 bike, and he had to pull off. After pinning everything in place, there have been no other problems, at all, with that set up.
Bill

I have found on a web site (I don't remember which one) that the advance curve provided by Bosch units are :

6 degrees at 900 rpm
16 degrees at 1 800 rpm
28 degrees at 2 800 rpm
32 degrees at 4 000 rpm and above

Since we usually run a race tuned Pantah engine between 5 000 and 10 000 rpm, that means the ignition advance stay constant.

So, what is the real use of an ignition advance CURVE ?

There are many benefits to a custom ignition advance. Race motors that are "tuned" will require this even more. A wonderful resource study from one of our members can be read here.
http://www.bikeboy.org/ducati2vignition.html
-Cranky-

Hello everyone,
I'm sure, Dyna ignition it's made to run himself, without kokusan or bosh modules, and I think that these modules can not run with Dyna pick-up.

In my opinion the best ignition style for every engine (race or street use), is with custom curve, tuned with help from dyno analysys.
But all systems have strengths and weaknesses, price, complexity ecc.

I concentrated my work in mechanical aspect of this theme, with the most simply electronic system possible, I thought that all ducati enthusiasts want to use their favourite ignition system.
Now, the mechanical aspect it's ok, and as I said, I go to testing different electronic solutions, including adapting complete original Kokusan system.

I hope my english is enough.
Ciao
Sauro

Sorry,
another point.
The Dyna DS4-1 have always fixed point, from 0 to xxxx rpm.
My engines run good with 32 degree of advantage maximum. They run good from the minimum to hight, if I try to increase this value the engines don't start good and don't run good before 2500rpm... obvious.

Ciao

Thanks again Sauro. I finally understand, but glad we went through this on the site.

Please, do not apologize for your English (like Carlo does). I am embarrassed the only foreign languages I understand are words for Ducati parts, using a translation program. I love the German word auspuff; just sounds so right. Nockenwellen is pretty cool too.

Ciao, MikeV

I am using 30 degrees of advance on my motors
Paul